With President Trump’s recent order lifting federal protections for transgender students in mind, NPR reached out to former Gov. Pat McCrory—who, in case you’ve been in a coma for the last year—signed North Carolina’s infamous HB2.

Pretty much since the Trump era Morning Edition host Steve Inskeep has been a bit feisty–in his NPR voice kinda way— with those who don’t agree with his thinly-veiled political views. But he gives McCrory a fair shake, even when McCrory stands his ground and refuses to apologize for HB2, which he shouldn’t anyway.